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The joys of building a New Vehicle

Submitted: Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 12:33

ThreadID: 137160 Views:4371 Replies:8 FollowUps:25

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Sir Kev

I am currently patiently waiting for the delivery of my new vehicle to replace my current 79 Series Dual Cab. I am getting a 2018 model, and as it is also my daily driver didn't have the time to undertake the works myself.
I am now wishing I did have the time as the quality of workmanship from a Major 4wd Accessory mob is quite alarming.

I have had them install a dual battery system with a Redarc BCDC 1240, and have a 6b&s cable run to the rear with an Anderson plug for the camper. As well as a number of other items (provent catch can, secondary fuel filter (wired to factory water alarm), clear view mirrors (elec adjust option), elec brake controller, driving lights etc).

I had the time yesterday when at the tray builders workshop to inspect the work. They had fitted incorrect driving lights (still a lightforce halogen fan :), didn't wire the water alarm in, and used 8mm wire for the rear power, and gouged the underside of the bonnet when installing the 2nd battery hold down bracket.

Their excuse was that wiring the secondary fuel filter wasn't possible, yet I have the exact same fuel manager filter system in current vehicle and have it wired in (was fitted by Diesel Care when I first got the vehicle).
The lights were another customers order, that no doubt, had pissed off another customer.

They used 8mm wire as they claimed that 6b&s doesn't fit an Anderson plug lug connector, so correct me if I am wrong but even 4b&s fit into the lug. But having fitted many runs of 6b&s into Anderson plugs on not only my vehicles and campers but also mates vehicles really makes me wonder if the monkeys have even any auto elec experience.

The Redarc BCDC charger is jambed into the front passenger guard, inaccessible to check if working, or even wire for solar, as you have to remove 2nd battery, plus battery tray to get into the passenger guard, or remove the inner wheel arch. I am waiting on a reply from Redarc to see if they recommend installing it there due to minimal ventilation for cooling. My current vehicle has it behind the drivers side headlight and heat shielded from the engine and radiator.

I am glad I have caught these issues prior to handover and that my tray builder is keeping me informed as to what the muppet at Toyota is oblivious to (he has even called the tray builder asking how the tray was going on the red dual cab, when it is a White one).

Now to wait till they fix the issues and see what else is amiss.
Hopefully I have time to finish off a few other smaller jobs before we head off to the National Gathering next month :)

Cheers Kev

Russell Coight:
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Reply By: Member - wicket - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 13:14

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 13:14

SNAFU Kev !

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Reply By: qldcamper - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 13:34

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 13:34

Dealers treat everyone like they are idiots, keep taking their BS and they will keep feeding it to you, just tell them your not paying for anything that isnt to the specs you ordered, or not able to be operated as it is meant to be. Check redarcs recomended cable size for a run of that distance in their installation manual.
If you can not see the front panel of the BCDC if you need to then it is not what i would call functional.

AnswerID: 620842

Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 13:42

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 13:42

They recommend 6mm2 minimum, I prefer to use 6b&s for most for my wiring over 1m in length.

Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 15:29

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 15:29

Just had a quick look at their manual, seems like they made a mistake in the cable sizing chart, it states 1-5 metres use 6mm squared and say it is 6 B&S and 5-9 metres to use 6mm squared and say it is 4 B&S

6 B&S is 13.5 mm squared and 4 B&S is 20.26 mm Squared.

8 mm automotive cable is close to 8 B&S which is 7.71 mm squared.

Sizing taking from the Tycab site.

If the dealers copy of the instructions is the same as that i have saved on my laptop then they only read the bit they wanted to see.

The battery in the trailer is a long way from the BCDC unit, being 40 amp capacity it will need the 4 B&S to work close to 100% but 6 B&S will run it reasonably well, just take a while longer driving, but the 8mm the dealer has used is cutting it a little too much, especially if you have a fridge running off it whilst driving as well.

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 16:34

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 16:34

That is my point exactly.
I am about to wire 2 x 300w solar panels into the camper as well to run off a 60a solar reg to boost camper battery charging whilst travelling.
I have a 3rd battery being installed under the tray to run my compressor and water pump so need the Redarc to provide decent charging of the Aux batteries. I am wiring the 3rd battery so know it will be done with heavy enough wiring, people have said I overkill it with wiring sizes, but as yet I haven't had any issues.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 18:17

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 18:17

.
Hi Sir Kev,

I agree generally with what Qldcamper has said but add further.

With the Redarc BCDC1240 installed in the engine bay it will look after the aux battery mounted in the engine bay but the under-tray and camper batteries may not fare so well with charging due to the resistance of the long cables. The primary function of a DC-DC charger is to overcome the resistive volt-drop of long cables and requires the charger to be positioned close to the batteries. In your case, the engine bay aux battery will charge OK and the under-tray battery may manage if good sized cabling is used but you would need expensively heavy cable to the camper to properly charge that battery. It is probable that the two vehicle aux batteries will reach a full charged state before the camper battery whereupon the charger will move to the float stage and provide no further adequate charge to the camper. Another possibility is that the lagging camper battery will delay the charger from moving to the float stage and thus overcharge the two vehicle batteries before the camper battery is fully charged. It all depends on the internal resitances of the several batteries and the cable resistances and could be a rather dodgy setup.
One way out of that is to use another (20A) DC-DC charger in the camper trailer.

I cannot imagine why you need a battery under the tray just to run a "compressor and pump". What does the enginebay aux battery run?

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 19:07

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 19:07

I run lots from the Aux as it is my office on wheels.
I have a 240v printer/scanner, running off an inverter and also charge my computer when needed. I also have my gps, tablet, phone chargers.
Add to that the fridge as well :)

I am hoping the installation of 2 x 300w solar panels will keep the camper batteries topped up, as they are powering the 95l Waeco dual zone and some led lights.

I will also have a 250w solar on the vehicle which I can use to charge the battery under the tray if needed. I have really worked out the wiring of that battery fully yet.

Cheers Kev

Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 21:15

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 21:15

.
Well Kev, I would suggest that you parallel your two vehicle-housed aux batteries and feed the charger output into the linking cable at approx the mid point. The feed to the camper should be taken from the same mid-point. It would be best to invest in another dc-dc charger (20A per 100AH of battery) positioned close to the camper battery. This charger will also act as an isolator to prevent feedback from the camper battery. If you do employ a dc-dc charger in the camper then feed it directly from the alternator, not from the "mid-point" referred to above.
This setup would provide good battery management for both charge and discharge. It will also optimise the charging of the camper battery and minimise the cable size going to the trailer. Note that the paralled batteries should be of the same size and type.
The paralled batteries will provide better power distribution than separate batteries with divided loads.

I also suggest that the 40A charger be moved out of the engine bay and be positioned close to the mid point of the paralled batteries and where convenient to access. It would even be better to move your aux battery out of the engine bay and put it with the under-tray battery. Heat is a killer of batteries, particularly AGM.

If the "Major 4WD accessory busines" has initials that begin as does my name, then I am not surprised at your predicament!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 21:57

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 21:57

Not that Accessory mob Allan, but a major 3 letter competitor

Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 08:25

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 08:25

Good advice Allan,
It is good to know the theoretically perfect installation so you know just how much difference the compromises will make along the way.

Id just add this bit, be careful how you connect your solar panels into the systems as it will confuse the BCDC just as the BCDC will confuse the solar regs, wont bother telling you how to do it because i think you have the expertise to figure it out.

Also id be very careful putting in a second BCDC charger, yes theoretically the correct thing to do battery wise to achieve the perfect system, but the 40 amp unit you already have will push the alternator well into its safety margin, adding another 20 will easily create the possible scenario of toasting the alternator. Not many engineers will design in a safety margin that will safely accommodate an extra 60 amps load, not to mention any other accessories you have added.

With the amount of solar you intend running will make the vehicle charging system almost obsolete in normal operation and will only be there as a back up in unusual conditions, if you link your car and trailer together whilst in camp the amount of accessory battery capacity you have together with the solar input is way beyond a typical set up.

So perfection in the vehicle charging system is maybe not as critical as most.

FollowupID: 893307

Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:05

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:05

"With the amount of solar you intend running will make the vehicle charging system almost obsolete in normal operation and will only be there as a back up in unusual conditions, if you link your car and trailer together whilst in camp the amount of accessory battery capacity you have together with the solar input is way beyond a typical set up."

My current in camp set up is not to have the camper connected to vehicle. So the 600w of Solar is to be my main power source to keep the camper batteries charged. With the solar connection I intend to have a manual change over switch/isolator so I can either charge via vehicle when towing, or charge via solar when in camp.

I doubt my set up will ever be perfect via vehicle charging, but I at least want it installed as per my instructions, as I don't want to fork out $$ for something that is below the standard I wanted.

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Cheers Kev

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 15:49

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 15:49

"With the solar connection I intend to have a manual change over switch/isolator so I can either charge via vehicle when towing, or charge via solar when in camp".

There is no need for an isolator. Both charge systems will play happily together.
I do this regularly (via a VSR near the crank battery that can be locked closed or left open, or operate in full auto). The solar continues to add its bit at the same time.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome.

FollowupID: 893313

Reply By: RMD - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 14:23

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 14:23

Building a new vehicle, it is already built, just adding stuff isn't building one at all.
Kev, What makes you think the people at the 4WD place have any qualifications at all, not many will have any auto electrical experience or understand such things. Most don't possess industry qualifications in anything. Dragged offf the street to work because they like 4wd's, no skill required to recognize a 4WD.

AS your footline says, "the foolish flaunt their skill", 'cos they don't have much. It seems you have far more experience fitting Anderson plugs than they have.

What is "worng" with the thinner wire, the fitter measured the voltage was there, is there more to understanding the concepts? he may ask, if he was smarter.

If the DC DC unit is where it will get heated by engine bay heat then the it isn't going to be able to deliver it's full potential bcause of derating to save it's own skin. Not being able to get to the controls is laughable. Grab the goon and stuff him in his own vehicle boot and shut the lid, see if he can drive it from there.

AnswerID: 620844

Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 16:37

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 16:37

Title was meant to be - Building UP a new vehicle.

They are now at 4.5 weeks since the fitout started, so they are not the quickest in the world, so one would hope that their quality of workmanship was good.

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 17:07

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 17:07

Glad you cleared that up Kev. I for one was totally lost as to what you were talking about.
Dave.

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Reply By: swampy - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 17:07

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 17:07

HI
U can order Anderson plugs with different terminals including ones to suit smaller cable . BUT WHY WOULD U !!
Highlights 2 points ,the person who ordered them and the end user both don`t no there customers very well !!!

AnswerID: 620846

Reply By: Gronk - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 19:07

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 19:07

Have you paid yet ?
I would delay any payment until the job was done as YOU want.

Unfortunately, these days you have to spell out every part of the job that you want done, which means you know what you want and it is better if you did it yourself.....if only you had the time !!

AnswerID: 620852

Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 21:59

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 21:59

Have only paid deposit on vehicle. Not accepting anything unless done as I have had outlined in the contract, was very deliberate to have it worded to be installed as per my requirements and not "what they deem as adequate"

Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 19:44

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 19:44

Good stuff.....I assume the dealer isn't doing the install, but either way, you're on top of it !!

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 20:38

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 20:38

No dealer has subcontracted it out, but are wearing the warranty of it all except for the tray as I specified who was building the tray and they were not their preferred supplier :(

Dealer is complaining that tray builder is delaying delivery, but the bloke is bloody good at his profession and I have told him to take his time, as good work takes time :)

Cheers Kev

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Reply By: Member - Lyncol - Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 22:12

Thursday, Aug 23, 2018 at 22:12

Hi sir Kev just wondering if you still have the camper in your profile it says it has 2x100 ah batteries. If so why not put the BDDC1240 In that and the 2x300 w panels ,presuming the BCDC has a solar input ? Then You could purchase a BCDC 1225s to put in front of the radiator, for good air flow and hook your other panels to that . You also say in your thread you are looking at wiring in these solar panels through a 60a reg while your driving this won’t work correctly because you’ll have 2regs fighting each other,so I’d go back to what I said earlier also run that off the start battery!

AnswerID: 620857

Reply By: Greg J1 - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 18:31

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 18:31

Are you talking about the tjm dealer in Chinchilla. I’ve had nothing but brilliant service from them in the past. The are not auto electricians. They are a specialist 4WD service business. Big difference.

Cheers Greg

AnswerID: 620873

Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 18:38

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 18:38

There is no TJM in Chinchilla.
I will also not step foot into any Black Toyota premises either, so I am not referring to any businesses local to me.

If the 4wd mob charge an arm and a leg for providing the service they can at least do it as requested.

Cheers Kev

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 19:04

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 19:04

I m thinking of the specialised 4WD service business on the eastern side of Chinchilla. They certainly do sell tjm products.

And Black Toyota. My family and I have probably bought close to 30 new Toyota’s off them over the years. Nothing but professional service. What’s wrong with them ?

Dare I say it. Maybe if you used some local talent in your area maybe you wouldn’t be crying on a national forum !!

Just saying

Cheers Greg

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 20:45

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 20:45

Actually just had an add up, 34 Toyota’s from Black Toyota. Can’t recall ever talking to a muppet. But that’s just me.

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 20:49

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 20:49

Well the last time I went into that workshop they had, had the TJM franchise removed, and changed over to Ironman.

Blacks are unwilling to quote and when they do it is generally $10k more than other dealers when comparing apples with apples, woeful at servicing and at the time I last used them the workshop foreman was a mate, but if the receptionist doesn't fill in the worksheets as per owners requests then how can they service it correctly and in a timely manner. Having the vehicle for 8 hours to do a 2 hour service and not do the work, is and wasn't good enough. Having them tell me to bring it back so they could do the work they were supposed to do in the 1st place doesn't cut it when you are self employed and can't afford to have your daily driver off the road, just for them to try again.

I now travel 300km to a Toyota Dealer who actually listens and does a good deal, and going by comments on the 70 series Facebook pages they are one of the best to deal with in QLD. If local talent was actually good and provided a timely and competitive service then I would shop locally.

Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 21:35

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 21:35

I’ve bought cruiser utes off Blacks from the old days of once a week mail. I had a couple brand new utes for 3 weeks before my cheque cleared. They would arrive on a road train loaded with new Toyota’s. The truckie would unload your new ute, you would invite him in for a feed and he would be on his way to the next place to drop one off. Quite often to the neighbors place.

This dealer bashing is just a joke to me. You say you won’t step into the local dealers premises but call the expert dealer 300 kms away a muppet.

I pass you quite often on the Warrego Highway. If your expert dealer has installed your uhf properly I will give you a call and ask how you are getting on.

One thing I have learnt over many years is to trust local people. If there is a problem at least it’s not a days drive to get something sorted. God knows these small businesses in these drought affected areas need all the support they can get.

Another thing. A service is a service. Why do you need the receptionist to be anything but a receptionist. A 20 000 k service. A 60 000k service is just that. When our vehicles get serviced they get serviced simple.

In your op you have complained about waiting 4 weeks for all these modifications. Yet in your last reply you say local companies can’t supply a timely and competitive service but you cry about these experts 300 ks away who can’t supply the same service.

Moderator or not I believe maybe you should have a think about what you post on here.

Cheers Greg

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 22:17

Friday, Aug 24, 2018 at 22:17

And I forgot to add. The part about them being $10 000 dearer that any other dealer. Mate I’m a pretty astute businessman. I do get other quotes. They’re regularly 3 to 5 cheaper than the south Burnett and Toowoomba dealers.

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Aug 25, 2018 at 09:11

Saturday, Aug 25, 2018 at 09:11

Not complaining about waiting, as I knew the vehicle wouldn't be ready until early September. Just annoyed that sub contractors can not follow requests but am also happy that I found it prior to the handover, so they can install it as requested.

As for servicing, if I ask for work to be done and get charged for it, I shouldn't have to take it back when not completed due to receptionists not detailing stuff on the job sheet.

You are the one who mentioned a Dealer not me and as for going 300km to a dealer, there is more than 1 dealer in that radius, I am not just travelling east.

At the end of the day it is my $$ so I can spend it where I feel fit, but I also want what I pay for.

Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: ian.g - Saturday, Aug 25, 2018 at 15:20

Saturday, Aug 25, 2018 at 15:20

Sounds like you're shopping at Tait Toyota in Goondiwindi, good luck with them also. Don't know why you don't name and shame when you have a bad experience.

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Aug 25, 2018 at 16:09

Saturday, Aug 25, 2018 at 16:09

It isn't a bad experience yet, just annoying that they do not adequately supervise the sub contractors doing work.
I have had good dealings with the sales person, but the one arranging the sub contractors needs to pick their game up. All I want is what I requested and am paying for, the sales person was laughing when I requested items to be installed a certain way, but my detail on the contract is now paying off. As I am getting it installed how I want it to be, which potentially costed me more but it is also making it easier for me to undertake repairs/work on later.

Every Dealer has good and bad points, the difference is how the respond to the bad.

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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Aug 26, 2018 at 09:12

Sunday, Aug 26, 2018 at 09:12

Hi Sir Kev, I wouldn’t “bag” all 4WD aftermarket accessories companies with the same name, as they are franchises. It all depends on the professionalism of the people actually doing the install, not the name on the door. Over the years, I have been to 3 different ARB franchisees, but now only go to one of these three, even though it is further away than one of the others. I have also used 2 different TJM franchisees. The workmanship has nothing to do with the name on the door.

I do feel your pain, and I know that I would not be happy if the installer did not do what I wanted when it was possible. If there are definite reasons why what I want is not possible, then that is a different matter, but to just not do it because it was not what he wanted to do, then that is unacceptable.

Macca.

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Sunday, Aug 26, 2018 at 12:01

Sunday, Aug 26, 2018 at 12:01

Having been to a heap of 4wd mobs, you need to really sort the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately I was not able to specify which sub contractors they used. Which is one of the reasons I was very detailed as to what I wanted in the contract.

Everyone has their reasons for how they wish items to be installed, having a system that works for me (when I have that exact system in current vehicle) makes it easier for me when it comes to maintenance.
It is a pain but I will also trace all aftermarket wiring when I collect to see where all the fuses etc are located so I have a better idea what is where.

Dealer is hinting at a Friday delivery, but I expect it may be ready sometime in the following week, which I then have to plumb the water pump, air compressor to air tank. Install and wire roof and floor consoles, wire the UHF and install my Stratos Suspension seat.

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